Ke$ha vs. Uffie

(A Facebook conversation I had with SLEAZEBALL's Buckminster Richman a few days ago. Harry is in many ways the godfather of my internet presence. Our wall-to-wall conversations is where I got confident putting my ideas down in writing, where I found my "voice", what got me to start blogging in the first place. The following is the sort of thing we would get up to. It all started with a status update...)

Harry Buckminster Richman: Before Ke$ha sucked, she was fat and sucked even more. http://bit.ly/9BdspO

P: That's just MEAN! Web-bullies! Also, Tik Tok is horribly, horribly awesome. The phunky beatz!! Better than Gaga, anyways...

Basically, I like Ke$ha despite disapproving of everything she does. Not basic at all, actually. She is corrupting little minds. Thru coercively glorious choonz. I'm so torn!

Harry Buckminster Richman: P, there is a reason you like Tik Tok; it is absurdly like an Uffie song, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUqFm0mhTYY (in fact, somewhat like two, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RA-lXK0c0g , listen to both) which was made like three years ago. And it does so without the pre-fab rebel from American Apparel attitude that Ke$ha has.

P: Harry: turns out Ke$ha is ripping off something even more horrible. I find the cuter reworking more tolerable, tbh. Better chorus, for one thing. And Uffie... pretty much the most odious pop personality I have ever come across? 'Odious' isn't a strong enough word, really. There ARE no words for this kind of evil. You can't like THIS, surely?

Off to listen to dubstep and grouch...

Harry Buckminster Richman: P, it doesn’t surprise me you don’t like Uffie, no one really likes Uffie. I kinda do like her. But that is besides the point. The point is that Ke$ha can suck my balls.

She is absurdly obnoxious, and I am utterly surprised you say she is in the least bit corrupting (I am going to ignore her music here, because as far as I am concerned it isn’t her music). She simply comes off as absurdly arrogant, and the worst kind of trashy. If by corrupting you mean making fourteen year old girls think getting wasted is cool (which, as far as I can tell is Ke$ha’s only enduring message - beyond being a rich bourgeois cunt rebelling against all the ‘norms’), then I must direct you to your nearest fourteen year old girl (or guy in fact, but whatever). Every stupid ass kid thinks getting wasted is awesome. If anything, it is unbelievably un-depraved. She is the kind of person you think your parents would hate, in reality your parents couldn’t give two shits about. Even her music is directly about her image, and her image is dirrrty era xtina crossed with Miley Cyrus, with none of the charm of either. So, she likes Jack Daniels I understand - you know who else liked whisky? Well, shit, every band since like ever. If anything, it is shockingly unsubversive.

You know what I did last night, I had some whisky, got tired, fell asleep in my jeans and one shoe. I woke up, showered and went to school. So, yeah, maybe she is being shockingly subversive, saying that you can be a dumb drunk bitch and just live off your upper middle class parents. Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t see what is depraved about doing something that like everyone in the entire western world does. So some fourteen year old hears this crap, it has no message (at least Britney Spears had *some* message) other than ‘I like being drunk’, well, that seems cool, except that fourteen year old probably sat with her parents whilst her mother drank three bottles of wine and her dad a six pack of Miller Lite.

I’m not sure you can be ‘subversive by (supposed) cool’ now. I think it is just done. I’m not even sure it’d been exciting in anyway if she had said ‘when I wake in the morning I do three grams of blow’ - like, even ‘Oxford Comma’ (which was in ads for the BBC!) says ‘why would you lie about how much coal you have’.

Gaga isn’t subversive because she gets drunk or parties ‘hard’, she creates original, catchy pop songs, and does it all while being that dramafag girl who everyone made fun of.

But, if being rich, attractive, blond and popular has suddenly become rebellious, then please, just ignore all this.

P: That every kid thinks this is acceptable IS EXACTLY THE PROBLEM. The fact that this ISN'T subversive -- that's a little worrying, isn't it?

I'm uncomfortable with 'everyone in the entire western world' thinking 'you can be a dumb drunk bitch and just live off your upper middle class parents.' THAT'S NOT GOOD, man...

Also, look at this - www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdQv8gCif88&feature=player_embedded

(BTW if yr mean about the video, we can't be friends anymore)

I quite like Gaga, actually. I was just being provocative. But the songs are not to my taste, apart from 'Paparazzi'. 'Paparazzi' is incredible.

Harry Buckminster Richman: I have no problem with that video, it is just some girls in like Buttfuck, Iowa having fun, and who I am to mandate fun.

In many regards I don’t really have a problem with Ke$ha either. Obviously I dislike her. But, whatever, she is (seemingly) having fun, and however you want to have fun isn’t anything to do with me. But to say she is subversive, subverting what?

P: Umm. The fact that 12-year-old kids think Ke$ha's attitude is a-OK is something I'm uncomfortable with. That's... not 'subversive' (because teens seem to agree with Ke$ha), but corrupting nonetheless.

You don't seem to like Ke$ha because she's not being obnoxious / shocking ENOUGH. (Why DO you like Uffie?) I have a problem with the whole idea (Ke$ha + Uffie + society in general) of telling kids that getting drunk / having guys trying to grab yr junk / shitting on yr parents is the right way to go. You're not passing judgement on 'however you want to have fun'. I am. Ke$ha et al are selling a idea of happiness that's actually very unpleasant and quite dangerous. (MAN, do I sound like a pensioner!)

Harry Buckminster Richman: I am not uncomfortable with kids thinking that; kids are idiots. Kids are always going to think stupid things. There is no way around this. I don’t care about anything corrupting kids at all, as far as I am concerned kids should be corrupted more (that sounds gross, I don’t mean it in a Michael Jackson/Macauly Culkin way).

I think there is a difference between being shocking, or artistically forward (which isn’t necessarily shocking) and obnoxious. Gaga puts on extravagance, and however you feel about her, proves the value of being original and the enormous creative endeavor of her performances.

Regarding, Ke$ha and Uffie; Ke$ha is kinda like a simplified red state version of Uffie. Uffie does like partying, getting drunk etc, but she also has an underlying message about a young girl finding her sexuality and femininity, and her power as a woman (she actually was only around eighteen I think when she started releasing songs). She is finding these things whilst getting and drunk and partying, this is her entry point of adulthood.

Ke$ha removes all of this, and almost totally reverses the idea, that you can be drunk and party, but stay a stupid kid. She “ain't got a care in world, but got plenty of beer”.

P: (I don't think we're gonna agree on this, but it's a lot more interesting than the essay I'm writing. Hope you don't mind...)

I don't know anything about Uffie or Ke$ha (brands or people). But from what you've shown me, I don't see the difference as being that great. Ke$ha is more playful with the whole "finding her sexuality and femininity" thing (boys not grabbing the junk), but both are still responsibility-free party animals. That's not being an adult. Both are stupid kids, Imo.

Also, do you figure out yr sexuality and femininity whilst getting drunk and partying? Do you work out WHO YOU ARE with these activities? Moreover, isn't that method a little dangerous? There are boys out there who want to grab yr junk! Getting wasted is not the best way to deal with that!

Harry Buckminster Richman: (No, we probably wont, be I too am finding it more interesting than what I should be doing).

I just don’t see ‘boys touching her junk’ as anyway close to finding her sexuality. That is her being somewhat victimized by a sexually aggressive boy. It isn’t playful, it is infantile and uneducated (the kind of thing that someone taught abstinence would say).

Uffie is “like that hot chick that you can't even touch. Like this cold ass bitch and I ain't ready to suck.”

There is a difference there, one is in control of themselves, the other not. I feel like I should make a kinda clumsy point about Ke$ha being manufactured and managed and all that comes with mainstream success.

Well, yeah, surely you do find who you are through partying. At least, you find who you are independently of parental concerns. It is about the closest thing you can do as a teenager to being treated almost adult like (and by adult I don’t mean responsible), and possibly the only times you’ll interact with adults outside of parents or school. Fundamentally, you are sexualized at things like this, and you can either be a continual victim of it and be willfully ignorant of how to deal with it (Ke$ha) or you can see who and what you are to others and control and exploit this (Uffie).

P: You could argue that Ke$ha IS in control. She is aware of the prospect of junk-grabbing, and she is not ALLOWING the junk to be grabbed. She's not ignorant or victimized. I just find it weird that this sense of control is married to getting crunk, where you can lose quite a lot of control, but I've said that enough already.

I don't know enough about Uffie, but I take your word for it - "You can see who and what you are to others and control and exploit this." I think this is implicit in Ke$ha, but at least Uffie tackles it head on. Props Uffie. Still a control over your IMAGE, rather than WHO YOU ARE, but whatevs. Maybe Uffie talks about being human too...

I was talking to S* about this yesterday. He also thinks Uffie and Ke$ha are fundamentally similar beasts, but that the latter is more reprehensible for cuteing up the "life = get crunk!" message and going after pre-teens. That's MORE evil, while I thought the cuteness made it slightly LESS evil. S is wise. I follow him.

Harry Buckminster Richman: I feel like we are nearing a point of agreement. Close. I don’t really think the problem is the crunk message, but whatever, it I think we are seeing it from relatively similar position now.

And I’m inclined to say that image generally amounts to who one is, but am somewhat ambivalent about forcefully arguing this, because just saying it sounds kinda dumb to me.

And, I’m still unsure that Ke$ha and Uffie are *that* similar. Mainly because, as I said, Ke$ha feels like some kind of pre-teen, red state version when it comes to dealing with sex and sexuality.

But, I think I am in somewhat agreement with you (and the eternally wise S).

Anyway, the last word is yours to use as you please.

P: Yep. I've accepted that Uffie > Ke$ha, and I agree with you on why. I'm also clear on why you don't think Uffie or Ke$ha are evil, although I can't agree with you on that. But arguing the case will involve questions of philosophy, and this mental masturbation has gone on long enough, really. People are going to start yelling at us to pipe down and stop being silly.

I declare TRUCE!

*the Whedon-fiend from here, who should really set up a blog of his own. The world needs his wisdom more than they need conversations about Ke$ha.